(NewsNation) — After the Supreme Court struck down New York state’s law requiring you show a specific need or threat to carry a concealed handgun, the decision will likely affect other states across the country.
This is especially true for those which had similar laws on the books, including California, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey and Rhode Island.
Democratic proponents of such laws in New York and beyond expressed dismay at the decision. New York Governor Kathy Hochul called the ruling “absolutely shocking” while New York City Mayor Eric Adams said, “this decision has made every single one of us less safe from gun violence.”
Opponents of such bills disagree, arguing concealed carry permits don’t commit gun crimes. To further the debate, Jumaane Williams, a New York City advocate, joined Leland Vittert to discuss both sides of the argument.
Jumaane Williams:
“This country is about 4% of the world’s population and they own over half of all civilian guns in the entire planet. And, yet, we seem to think that has nothing to do with the gun violence problem that we have. I will also say every illegal gun that you spoke of, was legal at some point. And that is a problem. We don’t want to take away the Second Amendment, but it does allow for totally legal guns to be bought, and turned into illegal guns.”
Leland Vittert:
“Is the problem a gun — which is an inanimate object — or is the problem someone who possesses that gun illegally? And if it is the ladder, why not prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law, as the DEA in New York City has said he will not do?”
Jumaane Williams:
“No, that’s actually not correct. So, there is prosecution of guns and gun crimes. The problem is a weapon that is made simply to destroy, mane and kill. It’s not like it’s something that is not made for that. I see more regulations on box cutters than on guns. And so when we saw 100 million more gun sales in this country during the pandemic, we knew that gun violence would spike and sure enough, it did: We had record numbers of low murders and shootings in this city between 2018 and 2019. We knew that was going to go up.”
Leland Vittert:
“But that went that went up with this law in place. How is it not that people who are illegally possessing guns are the problem? Alvin Bragg said he would not seek jail time for people who were felons in possession of a firearm. This is someone who has already been convicted of a felony. They have a firearm. He doesn’t prosecute theft of services, trespassing, aggravated unlicensed operation, routine traffic violations, obstructing government, resisting arrest, prostitution, and doesn’t ask for jail time for felons who have a gun. Why not deal with the people who illegally have guns before dealing with people who legally have them?”
Jumaane Williams:
“Just to be clear, the people who can do this best is the federal government. So our illegal guns are coming from places that have the type of laws that New York and others are now going to have. And because it is so easy to purchase guns, people purchase them”
Leland Vittert:
I still I still don’t understand, though, how going from May issue till Shall issue, which is all the Supreme Court decision did. How does that make the streets of New York more dangerous?
Jumaane Williams:
“Because all of the data shows that the amount of guns in our country — all of the legal guns — increase our gun violence. Guns are part of gun violence. I always find it interesting that we try to separate the two. I do believe that there are two pathways here: The supply and demand. So we have to deal with the supply. And we also have to take away the demand and potential to use.”
Leland Vittert:
“Why not do everything possible to take away the demand to deal with the bad people who use guns illegally, before going the route of trying to restrict legal gun ownership.”
Jumaane Williams:
“We have to do two things at one time: We have to deal with the demand in many different ways. We also have to lessen the supply of guns that are coming into our streets. Anytime we see the massive increase in gun sales, we see massive increase in deaths. Last year was the highest record of gun deaths in our country in history. That is connected with the sales of guns.”
Leland Vittert:
“Are you sure it’s not the reverse? That people see this huge increase in violence and they see the police stepping back and they see prosecutors not prosecuting crimes and allowing criminals to go free and then they go buy guns to protect themselves?”
Jumaane Williams:
“What we have seen in New York city, when we went from 2012, where there was high gun violence, to 2018-2019, we put a lot in place and what we saw was a drop in crime, a drop in use of force of police and also drop a complaints against police, which was due to several things we did at the same time. Then the pandemic hit. And the same people who applauded this kind of ruling, instead of working with us to do the things we know work, began to push a fear that was occurring this pandemic, which we said was gonna happen. We said this pandemic was causing problems in this society.”
Leland Vittert:
“There was a pandemic, there was also the Black Lives Matter movement and the non-prosecution movement and the defund the police movement. Those all had a huge amount to do with the increase in crime, too, didn’t they?”
Jumaane Williams:
“Police were not defunded in this country. Actually, most police departments have more money now than they did before.”
Leland Vittert:
No, they were just demonized, but okay.
Jumaane Williams:
Wait, no, no — you just said defund. So let’s just be clear: Most of these departments have more money than they do now. The problem is, we try to conflate and confuse the issue. We need to have our law enforcement partners with transparency and accountability. But most people, even the folks that agree with you, understand that there are many other agencies that don’t have the funding they need.”
