As the war in Ukraine continues for its ninth day, Russian troops moved forward with their attacks on the smaller country. On Thursday, a Russian projectile hit a training center at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, killing three Ukrainian soldiers and wounding two others.

NewsNation’s Nichole Berlie, who anchors “Rush Hour,” spoke to Pentagon press secretary John Kirby about these latest developments, the U.S. troops in Europe and the best-case scenario for how this war ends.

Below is a full transcript of the interview, edited for grammar and clarity.

Berlie: Russia attacked Europe’s largest nuclear plant on Thursday. The U.S. Embassy of Ukraine called it a war crime on Friday. Is it a war crime?

Kirby: Well look, it is clearly not the behavior of a responsible nuclear power and we have continued to urge Russia to take the violence and the tensions down. That includes abiding by international law. Hitting civilian targets is a violation of international law. So I think there’s an investigation going on right now into Russia for potential war crimes. We’ll let that process play out. But clearly, this is this entire invasion, not to mention, the strike on a nuclear power plant is a violation of international law.

Berlie: Is the US providing intelligence information to the Ukraine military?

Kirby: We absolutely are. We’ve done it before the invasion, and we’ve done it since the invasion. We are providing them intelligence and information that we believe will be helpful for them to better defend themselves. That kind of coordination and communication will continue.

Berlie: With the U.S. providing weapons such as stinger missiles to Ukraine, how confident are you that the Ukrainians know how to use what we’ve given them? And how good are they at using the items that we’ve already given them?

Kirby: They’re very competent in the field using the security assistance materials, the weapon systems that we have provided, as well as 14 other nations. I’m not at liberty to get into an inventory list in terms of exactly what they have and in what quantity. But we are giving them material that will help them with their anti-mechanized forces capability. In other words, anti-tank weapons. We’re also giving them weapons that will help them with airborne threats. As a matter of fact, (President Joe Biden) just recently, as you know, announced a $350 million security package in addition to the $650 million that he had already done. So we’ve now contributed, just this year alone, almost a billion dollars worth of security assistance to Ukraine and they’re using it quite effectively. Secretary (Lloyd) Austin spoke to his counterpart in Ukraine just the other day and (Ukrainian Minister of Defence Oleksii) Reznikoff made it clear that not only were they grateful for these weapons and these systems, but that they were using them. We have been, up until very recently, conducting a rotational training program inside Ukraine, so they absolutely have been trained to use these systems.

Berlie: Well, speaking of the president, he’s pledged that no Americans will fight in Ukraine. But he’s also said “the United States and its allies will defend every inch of territory that is NATO territory” with the full force of its collective power. If there’s an errant missile or a Russian tank rolls over a border, is the president committed to responding with military force?

Kirby: The president has been very, very clear. And you just heard it in that, in that clip right there from the speech, that we will defend every inch of NATO territory. Article 5 (of the North Atlantic Treaty) says that an armed attack on one ally is going to be deemed an attack on all, and the Alliance will come to the defense of the ally attacked. Now, look, you mentioned a couple of scenarios there. I don’t want to speculate and hypothesize about an errant missile. But an armed attack on the alliance will be deemed an armed attack on all of us, and so we’re going to respond. That’s why the president has flowed more forces from the United States to Europe. That’s why we have been repositioning forces in Europe, moving them from places like Germany, Romania, and the Baltic states to make sure that we, the United States, are doing everything we can to help our NATO allies better defend themselves. We’re not going to take off the table the possibility that we could send additional forces even on top of what we already have there to do that.

Berlie: Does the U.S. have enough firepower and boots on the ground in allied countries to deal with worst-case scenarios, however those may be defined?

Kirby: I’m really glad you asked that question, because we have been focused so much lately with these additional 10 to 15,000 troops or so that President Biden has either repositioned or moved from the United States to Europe. We need to remember that they are falling on top of more than 80,000 American troops that are either permanently based in Europe or on rotational orders already. And that, by the way, is only a drop in the bucket to the 1.9 million troops that all 30 NATO allies have at their disposal at any given time. There’s an awful lot of combat capability inside the alliance, and we are confident that Mr. Putin understands that.

Berlie: We’re seeing some horrific images coming out of Ukraine. Russia killing civilians with monstrous displays of violence. Ukraine’s ambassador and the only Ukrainian-American member of Congress are begging the Biden administration to do more. At what point will the U.S. be willing to go beyond sanctions?

Kirby: Well, first of all, I think the president has made clear that he’s not taken off the table additional economic measures if he deems fit, and other nations are also doing the same thing. The president had also been clear that there won’t be US troops fighting in Ukraine or in the skies over Ukraine. But what we will do is continue to look for ways to give Ukraine the kinds of security materials they need to better defend themselves, and we’re doing it faster. Almost all the $350 million has arrived in Ukraine, and we’re doing it as fast as possible. We certainly will continue to look for ways to do that. There are 14 other nations that are also providing arms and ammunition to Ukraine. There’s an awful lot being done to help them defend themselves and they’re doing it bravely. They’re doing it effectively on the ground and in the air. They are very much coming to the defense of their fellow citizens and their country.

Berlie: At this point, we’re more than a week into the war. But let’s flip this: what’s the best-case scenario for how this all ends?

Kirby: The best scenario, and that’s another great question, is for Mr. Putin, he has a lot of options available to him militarily, clearly. But the one option that he hasn’t used, and he has available to him and did before the invasion, was diplomacy. The best outcome here is for Mr. Putin to take his troops home, take them out of the country, de-escalate the tension, stop this invasion and permit no more violence inside Ukraine. That’s still an option available to Mr. Putin. They had talks yesterday, doesn’t look like there was a whole lot of progress made. We in the United States continue to support a diplomatic solution here. Look, Ukraine is a sovereign country. And they have been now since the early ’90s. This is a sovereign nation-state that Mr. Putin has decided to attack, so the best outcome is for Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity to be respected and their freedoms to be allowed, and for Mr. Putin to stop this invasion, this unprovoked war of choice of his.

Berlie: Do we have an estimate at this point on how many Americans are still in Ukraine at the moment? And what is being done to try to help get them out?

Kirby: I don’t think we have an exact number. I would certainly defer to my colleagues at the State Department for a more accurate estimate on that. I don’t think we have a full accounting of the number. But if they do, the State Department would have it more than we would here at Defense. This is not a good time, obviously, for American citizens to be in Ukraine. The State Department was very clear in the weeks leading up to this invasion that they wanted Americans to leave, they urged them to leave. It’s a war zone now, and so if there are Americans still left in Ukraine, we again urge them to leave. Now, I will tell you that over the last few days, we haven’t seen a whole lot of American citizens leave Ukraine. They’ve been coming in smaller numbers every day, and we hope that that’s indicative of the fact that the vast majority of them left before the invasion started.

Berlie: Well, talk about these refugees fleeing Ukraine. There are estimates that there could be millions when all is said and done. Will America take those refugees in? And if so, how many?

Kirby: Well, the UN’s already estimated that over a million have already fled the country, and that doesn’t count the tens of thousands that are displaced inside Ukraine. The United States has been very clear. As these evacuees leave the country, we’re going to do what we can as a government, not the U.S. military, but as a government, to help get aid and assistance to those that are displaced inside Ukraine. I mean, it is a catastrophe of perhaps epic proportion here, when you’re talking about the numbers that we’re starting to see, and this is only Day Nine. If this thing drags on for more weeks, I mean, it could very well end up being millions of people, all of which is avoidable. All these innocent victims are totally avoidable. And of course, that’s not even counting the civilians who have been killed and injured as a result of Mr. Putin’s war.

Berlie: The troops that pushed into Ukraine have been compared to the junior varsity squad — does that mean Putin has a varsity team to send in? If so, what does that look like?

Kirby: Well, we’re not using those kinds of phrases to describe Russian forces. They have been reckless in their assault on innocent Ukrainians and on civilian infrastructure and city centers. Totally reckless, again, totally unprovoked. What is deeply concerning about this attack and this fighting over the nuclear power plant is the larger-scale damage that we could have had, not just to innocent Ukrainians, but even to the region. Now, fortunately, the assessment is that there’s been no leakage of radioactive material. We are in no position to dispute the claims by Russia that they are in control now of that power plant. But it is worrisome to have Russian military forces now in some sort of administration over peaceful nuclear power. That shouldn’t give anybody any reason for comfort. Again, all of this could be avoided if Mr. Putin would de-escalate and stop this invasion.

Berlie: Well, on the flip side of that, Adm. Kirby, Russian forces are allegedly also having problems with supplies, problems with fuel, problems with morale. What does Pentagon intel attribute that to? What does Pentagon intel attribute Russian problems to?

Kirby: Well, look, they have absolutely had fuel sustainment problems, we even have indications that they’re having trouble feeding their troops. I think, to a large degree, a lot of their sustainment problems are due to Ukrainian resistance, the Ukrainian fighters, the soldiers. They are resisting this invasion and doing it very creatively. They have made it hard for Mr. Putin to resupply his forces. We also think that they are having missteps of their own in the administration of their own logistical lines. They haven’t in recent years attempted any kind of military intervention of this size and scale and scope. And we do believe that they are running into problems of their own making. But clearly, a big reason why they have stalled out to the north into the northeast of Kyiv is because of the Ukrainian resistance.

Berlie: Well, we’re talking about Russian forces on the ground there. Let’s talk about cyberattacks, Russians hitting Americans here at home. It’s something we were obviously well aware of prior to this, but it doesn’t seem to have happened yet. Does that surprise you?

Kirby: We’re careful about what we talk about in cyberspace. I would just tell you that we’re watchful, we’re vigilant. We’re going to do everything we can to contribute to the resilience of Americans’ cyberinfrastructure. I think I probably would leave it at that.

Berlie: If there is a cyberattack on the U.S. or one of our allies, will that trigger Article 5? NATO has said that it would, so what would the U.S. response look like?

Kirby: That’s a decision for the Alliance to make if, in fact, they would consider a cyberattack an armed attack. I think that’s a discussion for the Alliance and I would want to respect that process. President Biden has been very clear that if we are the victims of a cyberattack that can be attributed to Russia, we will respond accordingly and appropriately.

Berlie: Vice President (Kamala) Harris is going to Poland and Romania next week. Can you tell us what’s the goal there?

Kirby: I think it’s terrific that the vice president is going to be going to the region to talk to our allies, to talk to our partners, to make clear to them how seriously we take our commitments to the region and to regional security, not to mention our NATO Alliance. The vice president will be met, I think, generously by all these allies and partners who really do want U.S leadership, who want to see that America is committed to the alliance and to their security, and she will be primed and ready to deliver that message.